Do The People Know What's Good For Them?

One of my good friends on Blogger, Anadroid, made a great comment on my post about punishment, called Should The Cane Be Brought Back in School?. She said, "yeah I wonder who wants the cane back? Surely not someone who was caned as a child at school? Or maybe that is who wants it back cos' they think it helped them somehow or they are a sadist or they want revenge or something....It's a strange old world."

Strange indeed, as a glance at the comments under the original post at timesonline will show. All the floggers came out to play! This morning me and my friends debated the question, and we decided the following: Those people probably don't care about school discipline, but they're frustrated with what they see as social breakdown. As long as they know that someone, anyone, is getting their ass whipped for it, they're happy.

It's the classic knee-jerk reaction of unthinking people, when they see an example of chaos, or deliberate flouting of authority. They want to exert more and more control until the undesirable elements finally step into line. These kind of people, if they did but know it, are probably only one step (or goose step?) away from Nazism. All they need is a Hitler to lead them.

But it does not end there...

A teacher pointed out that, according to a survey, the majority of the population of England believe that capital punishment for homicide should be re-instated. Not for all types of homicide, only the worst ones such as terrorism, or killing a policeman or a child. Now you may ask, if England is a democracy, why doesn't the Parliament bring back hanging?

Because the representatives believe that the people have got it wrong. Do you think they are acting rightly to set aside the will of the people who elected them? If so, what does that tell us about democracy as a form of government?

The Members of Parliament see themselves as better qualified to judge what is the right action on such an important issue. The ancient Greek philosopher Plato took this idea one step further. He rejected democracy altogether, and proposed (in the Republic) a state ruled by philosophers as a model for the perfect society. Everyone would have their place in the social order, and the elite ruling class would be given a rigorous training regime from an early age, to prepare them for philosophic government. In particular, they would be trained to discern the nature of the Good, so that the people would not need to decide what was good for them. Any form of dissent would be ruthlessly put down. But Plato believed that this system would bring about stability of government and general happiness. A similar proposal can be seen in the writings of Confucius in China.

But are these models of government, sophisticated as they are in their description, really any different from the knee-jerk flog 'em reactions of the ordinary joe in the street?

The education system of training for excellence advocated by Plato, was later adopted in Renaissance Italy, and also in Britain in the elite "public schools", where it served as a model for the American school system, which in turn has influenced the schools of many other countries around the world.

Anyone got any opinions?

Should The Cane Be Brought Back in School?

See this item in the news. (links will open in new window)

We want to use philosophy to solve this problem.

A survey found that a fifth of teachers in the United Kingdom thought that the use of the cane as a punishment should be brought back into schools in Britain. Before looking at the pros and cons of this issue, we must look at a comment by the writer Sarah Ebner. She seems to think that the survey shows that teachers have lost the plot, and they are all wanting to go around with a big stick, whacking all the kids left right and centre. But the survey does not show anything of the kind. You have to remember that four fifths of the teachers surveyed, that's 80%, must have been against corporal punishment.

Another silly idea is that of the person who commented on the original item, when he thought a child would get caned in front of the whole class, and that would bring down their pride. But the reality is that, even if caning was brought back, it would only be served out by the head teacher or a deputy, and well out of sight of other children.

The two points made above are merely to put the discussion into some perspective, so it can be talked about logically, and free from crazy notions.

Those in favour say that discipline in English schools has become so bad, and the sanctions are so ineffective, that a return to caning as a kind of ultimate sanction is needed. They point out that in the "old days" when there was caning, there were far fewer problems. They think that there are some students who laugh at the discipline system in school, and laugh at the psychologists and "anger-management" specialists, and just play the system. The proponents of a return to caning also point out that many students are heartily sick of the disruptive elements in their class who are spoiling their learning opportunities, and that those students would also be in favour of it. Those in favour also argue that the alternative sanction - exclusion from school for a number of days - only makes it seem as though the wrong doer is getting an extra free vacation while the other children have to carry on working.

Those against caning say that in former days, people were more concerned to conform with rules and regulations, and that was why discipline was generally better, not because of the cane. They point out that society is different nowadays, and that there are also a lot more stresses on young people than there were in their grandparents time. These stresses, they say, make it more difficult for children to control their behaviour. There are many more learning disabilities now that were simply not acknowledged in those days. They also argue that many of the people who want to bring back corporal punishment have never themselves experienced the misery and shame felt by a child who is being beaten by adults, especially if it is an unjust punishment, as would sometimes happen. Furthermore, they say, the child may well become more defiant as a result of being punished in this way. They say that such a regime would give an unspoken lesson to young people that violence is an acceptable way to solve problems.

(One thing that should be remembered: physical violence of any kind inflicted on a child for any reason whatever, by an adult who is not their parent, is currently illegal under United Kingdom law.)



If you are a student, what do you think of the idea of bringing back corporal punishment in schools?

If you are a parent, would you be willing to allow your own child to be punished in this way?

If you are a teacher, do you think that caning would be an acceptable way of solving the problem of discipline in the classroom?

If you are none of the above, do you think that corporal punishment in school would solve some of our social problems?